I’m a currently pre-op trans woman. I’ve been engaged to a wonderful, sweet, kind , loving , loyal and honest man since March. In my 3 years of dating I’ve noticed there seems to be a difference in attitudes about relationships with us depending on age. I’m 50+ and almost every guy within in 5 years younger than me and up serm to have more trouble with a actual relationship. They rarely want to be seen out with me, i think Ipass pretty good. Guys in their 20’s,30’s were much more open to a real relationship. Wanting to show off their date, proud to be with me. They didn’t care what others thought. My fiancee is 24 years younger than me. I’ve never been happier in a relationship. When people start to see relationships that are healthy and “normal” between a trans woman and a guy maybe more will realize it’s ok. We are women, guys can be attracted to big breasts, curvy women, skinny, big booty, small booty, tall, shirt women. We are just another type of women.

Janna your comment really made me think about how difficult it can be for someone to understand something they have never encountered or haven’t been taught about. We need to be educating one another at any chance we get so that potential intolerance can change to tolerance, and that to acceptance and inclusion. For those of us that do not understand something we need to be curious and question others from a place of love and open mindedness. No one is ‘normal’, most people will say they regularly feel misunderstood and I think we can all agree it’s a terrible feeling. Why are we choosing to place this feeling on one another when the option of doing the opposite is just as available. It seems so crazy that accepting someone who is different from ourselves is so hard for some people when the concept for universal love, acceptance, and happiness is so simple and attainable… Treat others how you want to be treated.

In response to Christina regarding men who are attracted to you because you are specifically transsexual, well yeah, I guess you could view that as objectification. I’m a straight man who likes biological women as well as transwomen, hence I’m attracted to women. However, I’m not very attracted to the vagina; never really have been. I’m far more attracted to the male genitalia. But I’ve always been attracted to the female form. A transsexual woman fits that description. Sure, you could say I’m a “chaser” or just into the sex or just wanting a transwoman for her body, etc… but I’m not.

Yes, I’ve been with a transsexual escort, and while she fit all the physical qualities I liked, her personality turned me off completely and her attitude was rude…. so much in fact that we never had the actual coitus.
If we look at this objectively, I’m attracted to certain physical characteristics and a certain personality with certain qualities. Does me wanting to be with a transwoman because she has a penis and cannot get pregnant any more insulting than me wanting to be with a cis-woman because she has a vagina and can get pregnant?
That’s perfectly okay if you find it disrespectful on my or any other man’s part. But I disagree with the assumption that men who specifically date transwomen because of their male anatomy should be ignored and not taken seriously. That’s my sexual preference (a woman with a penis). The much more difficult part, in my case, is finding a partner whose personality I love.

The main point of my reply is that not all men who are attracted to transwoman are just chasers. Yes, a lot are. But then there are a lot who aren’t. Their sexual preference may be a woman with a penis but we (men) also are looking for everything else underneath that (mind, personality, etc….). I think the “chasing” and hiring escorts is mostly due to the taboo still associated with the transworld. Perhaps in decades to come, as transpeople become more accepted, more men will spring up with courage, vowing their love for their transwomen. It just becomes more arduous and disheartening when the transwomen themselves view us (straight men) as lechers and objectifying perverts.
Cheers

Personally, i am guilty of using the term ‘chasers’ and i acknowledge that i shouldn’t, for the reasons expressed so well in your article. However, in my defense, or at least for the benefit of clarity, i have found that some people are attracted to me *because* i am trans. That feels objectifying and is often accompanied by a sort of arrogant attitude that i should be grateful they have taken an interest in me. I do not like being taken for granted or assumed to be available just by virtue of my gender. I know that women have experienced this since time immemorial, so there is nothing unusual about this. However, that for me has been my experience of ‘chasers’ and that is why i do not find their attentions in any way flattering or welcome. Nevertheless, in light of the discussion here, i shall endeavour to be more forgiving in future and will avoid using labels that demean others.

Your essay hit home really hard for me. You see, I’m a 28 years old non-op Transwoman and My best friend from high school, a heterosexual male, finds me attractive. He wants our close friendship to evolve to the next level and so do I. Before I’ve read your essay, I’ve thought a lot about how our relationship might hurt him in and future endeavors.

“Since you have been honest with me about your feelings, I think it is only fair that I am honest with you. You have mentioned that there are obstacles between us. But the geographical distance is a small obstacle compared to the obstacle of who you are as a transsexual person. Maybe my warm, compassionate nature gave you the false impression that I approve of your transsexual lifestyle. Here is my honest view: I believe you should learn to appreciate the body you were given. I never told you this because I was afraid it would be perceived as judgemental. Many people would probably say our close friendship shouldn’t be possible given the fact that we hold opposite views on an issue that affects you so personally. And maybe those people are right. Maybe our friendship was only a figment supported out of my failure to speak the truth about my view on transsexual people. Maybe you will no longer desire to be my friend because you will feel offended by my view. If that is the case, I will understand. I feel like I unintentionally led you to the false hope that we could develop a different kind of relationship. For that, I apologize. Please understand that you are the first transsexual friend I ever met, and I didn’t really know how to tell you about my view about transsexual people. Like I’ve already said, I did not want to sound judgemental.”

Reading this message had a significant adverse affect on my belief in myself and made me doubt myself as a woman. I feared that no man would ever want a relationship with me. This concern was strengthened when I had a similar experience with another man almost a year later, this time on Skype. He said he didn’t think I should give up a healthy body and perform surgery on it, only to later suggest (in response to me saying that a person’s need to change gender is inherent, not just something someone can choose) that in the future brain surgery to change my mindset may be an option. At that time I had so little belief in myself that I sat and listened to him say things like that to me for a whole hour. I thought the things he said about me were true and though I wasn’t going to detransition or anything like that I did believe I was less of a person as a result. Over time the men I liked were less transphobic, though some still quite ignorant about what it is like to be transgendered and to have issues with one’s body. Some thought I was too needy. But then I managed to associate with men who treated me better, though connection was still very one-sided with them not taking an interest to speak with me. Though I don’t think that was about me as much as they were busy and doing other things, it didn’t feel so personal. Then a couple of weeks ago someone messaged me on a dating site full of support towards me and he said at one point he thought I was amazing. I think we’re just going to be friends but reading the message felt like the polar-opposite to reading the message I included earlier in this comment and our connection as friends has given me a newfound sense of security and hope that there are men out there who will want a relationship with me.

Thank you for posting this wonderful article. It really gives me strength, i actually just share this on my timeline so that people would able to read this and realize that yeah we trans women are worthy to be seen in public with man that were no difference from a woman they seem to know well.
“We are not secrets. We are not shameful. We are worthy of respect, desire, and love. As there are many kinds of women, there are many kinds of men, and many men desire many kinds of women, trans women are amongst these women. And let’s be clear: Trans women are women” – I LOVE THIS!

But being as I am so new to this world I am very afraid of even being seen by strangers, let alone friends or family, in the company of her. And that is not fair to her, not at all. When I first met her it was on a t-girls date sight and I totally made it clear that I needed a completely “passable” t-girl in my life to accompany me on trips and dinners with my employers.. She assured me she is 100% passable and her pictures don’t lie, she is. She also thinks my inexperience is something to be valued and not taken for granted. I want my first to be special, with someone special. This girl has been in trans since 13 years of age and has a very supportive family, a very rare thing for T-Girls.
Anyways, I could go on and on. I really hope I fall in love with this girl and am able to no longer live in shame of my bisexuality.
I truly tip my hat to any T-Girl because you are truly an inspiration to me knowing just ho much courage it takes to come out.

J.S

I think that Emma Watsons recent announcement at the UN Summit was incredibly powerful and something that concerns ALL women. Men are having to protect their sexualities constantly in this day and age if; they cry, they show too much affection/emotion, do too much housework, be loving fathers and have gay friends.
This is absolutely appalling because I am not one of those women who would hook up with a man until I know him well enough but even at that. At which point will society stop focusing so much on matters that they are not entitled any say of and matters that is simply none of their business.

If a man loves a woman, it’s his love. How dare anyone call into question a man’s sexuality simply because he is seen doing something that’s an ancient norm of today’s society. The man hasn’t changed anything about himself, he still plays his sports, hangs out with the same friends (which may be the cause of his anxiety in terms of dating a transwoman’, still has the same personality, political and religious beliefs, likes and dislikes. HE IS NO LESS OF A MAN FOR BEING WITH WHOM HE WANTS and I would not stand there and allow anyone to call into question a mans sexuality because of these things. It makes it harder for me to date any man because first and foremost, they want sex (it’s what men want initially), after establishing I have self-respect/morals and he isn’t getting to dub me one of his sexual conquests or his bootiecall, we move onto dating (although the first establishment is a minor occurrence, sometimes they decide dating me is not for them) but what puts me off is although this man is comfortable to date me in public, I fear that his sexuality may be called into question because it directly affects who I am as a person, a woman and it directly affects my man’s confidence in himself (I think).

I invite society to be the evolved animals science calls us to be, be more respectful, understanding and tolerant and understand that MY RELATIONSHIPS ARE NOT YOUR BUSINESS and if you make it your business then we have a problem. Challenge yourself to changing your perceptions of the norms and values. I’m sure you all have enough of your own problems to worry about rather than my femininity and my man’s masculinity.

I am a trans man. I’m going to take a shot at answering your question.

My parents didn’t force or even really push me to be “girly” as a child; I chose swimming classes over ballet, didn’t wear dresses most of the time, and played with toy cars and trucks as much as I played with dolls or stuffed animals. When playing pretend with my friends, I was the dad when we played house and the prince when we played princesses. It didn’t seem significant to me then, and I didn’t object to being considered a tomboy.

Just before puberty and when puberty began was when it started being problematic for me. I knew that I didn’t really feel like a girl, but since I had no awareness of the concept of being transgender and no idea that this wasn’t the way most girls felt, I assumed that this was normal. I thought that as puberty progressed, I’d start feeling like a girl. I looked forward to it, because even though I wasn’t made to act or dress girly, I still felt a subtle discord and discomfort with the idea of myself and my body, and I had a vague awareness that this had to do with my gender. However, instead of feeling more comfortable as my body shape altered and I grew breasts, I felt steadily less comfortable. It felt wrong, and I didn’t know why or even really how.

I’ve tried various approaches to dealing with my gender over the course of my life. I’ve tried dressing and acting in a more feminine way, and I’ve tried dressing and acting as an androgynous or masculine woman. It still doesn’t feel right, even all the way over on the butch end of the spectrum. I’ve never felt good about calling myself a woman or being referred to as “she.” The discomfort with my body has grown slowly worse as I’ve gotten older. I couldn’t tell you why, but that’s how it is.

The best metaphor I’ve come up with for the way my body dysphoria feels is this:

Imagine that you’re wearing a pair of pants one size too small. Imagine the way the pants pinch your waist, bind your thighs, and ride up at your ankles. It’s a relatively minor discomfort, and i probably doesn’t look too bad. If you don’t have another pair of pants to wear, you can deal with it. It’s workable, even if you’re not really comfortable.

Most of the time, as you go about your day wearing the wrong size pants, you’ll be able to ignore how it feels. You’ve got other things to think about, more important stuff to deal with. But the discomfort is always quietly there as background noise. If you have a minute in which you don’t have anything else to do, your discomfort with the badly-fitting pants might come back up to the top of your mind, and you’ll think about how you’d really rather have a pair of pants that fits you and wish you were home so you could change.

Now — take that feeling that you’re imagining, and imagine that instead of your pants not fitting, it’s your body that doesn’t fit. It’s a mental feeling instead of a physical one, but at least in my case, it’s a similar “sensation.” My body is the wrong shape, and I am not comfortable in it. I don’t like to look at it or be aware of it, and I’d rather change it so it fits my internal experience of how I should feel.

This isn’t necessarily representative of all trans people’s experience, but I hope it helps you understand a little better as to why I can’t just be a masculine woman, why instead I need to be a trans man.

Your words are inspiring as I admit to be the lesser man by being bothered by public thought for my love of transgendered women. I questioned my sexuality because of my passion for these women for many years. I recognize this petty problem as being self destructing because this is not the way a ‘normal’ man is supposed to love, blah, blah, blah. I know I must resolve this self imposed shame if I ever want to be set free. Got a long road ahead because of no one to talk with. I respect the hell out of transgendered women as they don’t care about public opinion and made a really strong decision to be who they are.

I will never be able to become that man.

topics like lactation, normal breast development, gender reassignment surgeries, pregnancy, motherhood. to list just a few.

On the original post, I agree with you completely, there is a stigma attached to trans women, and to men that choose to be with them socially, when there should not be one. Oddly, there is no stigma for a woman to be seen socially with a trans woman, though the number of women that would be interested in an intimate relationship with a trans woman is much smaller than the number of men that are.

It was nice to read the article and this comment. Regarding your second comment though, I am careful not to compare the ways various groups are oppressed in a there more oppressed than me or I’m more oppressed than them fashion. All forms of oppression are harmful to society and propagate the continuance of it.

I do get the general gist of the article here, however, as a man BE A MAN! Don’t worry so much – I have always been as proud of my trans-friends/lovers as I have been of my cisgender friends/lovers. Maybe even more so, as I do not neglect the political aspect of being in a relationship with a trans-woman. And I admit to being a bit political…

I have friends (even transsexual friends, believe it or not) who have asked me to be less open about my what I consider honest and natural attraction to trans-women, as it may “hurt my social status” and make me lose clients… well, that is the risk I take and I take it with pride. And so far without the dire consequenses.

So to all you closetted men out there who as I find that special attraction to trans-women – go for it – and go for i OPENLY! You have nothing to be ashamed of – on the contrary! Be proud! Be bold! Be loyal – to your self and your transsexual girlfriend. NEVER keep her a secret! Love her, adore her – let her give you all the strength you need. She will do it!

Peace!

H

Its nice to hear the male perspective on topics like this because I have been dating my girlfriend for almost a year now. She is a transgender woman and she told me before I even met her in person but Im so glad I chose to get to know her as a person because at times society does make me feel like less of man because of who I’m dating even though I love my girlfriend with all my heart. Reading everyones comments on this topic especially the men really made me feel good and caused me to realize. I shouldn’t be ashamed of who I feel in love with but I am ashamed that I let society made me feel less of a man because of who I love. I lot of days when I hold my girlfriend in my arms I think to myself she is so beautiful physically and even more so her personality is one of a kind……and as far as transgender women being seen as less than human and subject to the delusional thought that because of what they were born as they dont deserve love or a genuine relationship. I think that is a bunch of bs and if anything I think in my case it is me who doesn’t deserve the unconditional, amazing love my girlfriend bestows upon me when I’m with her I can only hope that in the near future like the awe inspiring art she has inspired me to create. I become a man who is more than worthy of my girlfriends love.

Well, why would it be? If you were with a woman and found out that she used to have, say, an extra finger, or a cleft palate, would you suddenly not be attracted to her or think she was “dishonest”? If not, why would discovering that a woman you’re attracted to is trans make you feel that way?

WOW! I am so fortunate that the Transfolk I know don’t know YOU. My last comment to a friend who is transitioning was, “I am so glad to see you. You seem like yourself. You didn’t before.” SHE was an angry, difficult individual before. Now, she is calm and comfortable (even though I won’t be makeup shopping with her anytime soon!)
I am even more glad that the young people I know who desire to transition probably won’t read your comment. You live in a sick community of self-centered individuals. Glen Beck would love you, if he had the guts.

You are not alone in your quest for information! Thank you for your sincere efforts. May we ALL learn from this comment section.

V

One is my own journey through gender identity. I was born a female but was often confused for a boy when I was young (because I liked my hair short and my clothes comfortable and practical for sports, and I preferred playing sports/video games/Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh! cards/collecting action figures and comic books to traditional “girlish” pursuits such as dolls, dress-up, playing “house”, etc.). My first day of kindergarten I decided I had to start growing my hair, because I walked into the girls’ bathroom and all the girls ran out screaming “THERE’S A BOY IN HERE!!!”–and my mother had to come to the school to confirm that yes, I was her daughter, I was not lying. Because I would never wear dresses (which were impossible to play soccer in, and soccer was my life) I decided growing out my hair (which I could at least tie back) was the best way to ensure people knew I was a girl. I was outed as a lesbian (although I now identify as queer, because I’ve developed some interest in men and am engaged to a guy) by accident when I was 11, and because I already received some flak over being shy, academics-oriented, athletic, and boyish-looking, being lesbian was the last nail in my coffin that branded me as a social outcast. Throughout my teenage years, I was ashamed to be seen around girls (because I felt horrible that I would never be able to fit in or be accepted by them, as one of them) and terrified to be seen by guys (because I was lesbian, people often floated rumors that I’d hit on someone’s girlfriend or tried to grope a girl or been eying up a girl in the locker room, although really none of it was true–but nobody bothers to fact-check, they just said “You wanna be a guy? Well, we’ll treat you like one–and if you hit on our girlfriends, beat the s*** out of you same as we would any guy!”). As such (because new lies came out every day) I was always running and hiding, I could never feel right living in the open. I considered the possibility that I was actually a boy trapped in a girl’s body, and lived for a while as a boy (moved to another state for a year and introduced myself there to everyone as a young man named Shalom). In the end, I didn’t feel right living as a man either. I moved back to NYC (where I had lived prior) a year later. That was where I encountered “Aang”, an old friend of mine–when I’d known Aang before, she was a girl named Angela whom I’d dated for about a month. Aang taught me about his new identity as an agender human. I began learning about third-gender identities (agender, bigender, genderfluid, etc.) and became comfortable living as a genderfluid human. In certain circumstances I am much more masculine and in others I can be more feminine–but I don’t restrict myself with either identity. I know what it’s like to be treated like I’m second-rate because I wasn’t a “proper girl” or a “real man”–and as such I felt the emotions in this post deeply.

Another reason is that I have seen several friends through their transitions. One of them is my friend, Brianna. I had a friend who we all knew as “Joey”. He was a soft-spoken, kind-hearted, gentle young man who we all knew and loved. He had soft blond hair down to his collar that all the girls would joke made them feel bad about their own, and the girls would always ask him what skincare products he used because he had perfect skin. I noticed he seemed like he was nervous and depressed one day and took him aside to talk to him, and asked him what was bothering him. He looked me in the eye and said, “I’m not a man–I’m really a transgender woman. I’ve been working on starting the transition on my own, but I saw my parents recently and tried to speak to them about it…it was ugly.” I was silent for a moment, then said, “I didn’t know you were transitioning. Is there a name you’d like us to start using for you?” She smiled at me and said, “It’s Brianna.” And I smiled and said, “Well, Brianna, J-mo and the rest have been begging to do your hair for months, and your makeup too…do you think you’d be up for letting them if they knew about this?” And she said, “We’ll see, I don’t know if they’d be that good at it…but how do I talk to them [our friends] about it?” I suggested that we just lay it on the line and if they had any questions, encourage them to ask. That wound up working quite well. It was strange at first for her, but she’s much happier now that she’s fully transitioned. She’s found a boyfriend who is not afraid of those stigmas, and they are now cohabiting–and I’m pretty sure he’s planning to propose to her. He loves her for who she is, and sure, his basketball buddies weren’t so open-minded–but he always defended her and supported her through everything with her family, school, work…I call the two of them extremely lucky. Bri, because she found such an amazing, open-hearted, brave, loving man–and her boyfriend because dude, he’s living with my awesome and beautiful friend, and he treats her well enough that he will never risk running into some bad luck with my fists.

The last main one is that I am living with my fiance, a cisgendered heterosexual male, and I have spoken to him openly about my feelings about my gender and sexual identity and a lot of the pain that I went through related to it (my own insecurity, harassment and abuse from people who were not understanding of it, a violent hate crime when I was in my early teens, failed relationships, being estranged from family members who refused to accept my identity, etc.). He’s been through his own piles of shit, and we’ve talked about his stuff too, but a few months ago, we were talking one night and I told him that sometimes I still feel inadequate as a person because of how people in my family–and society as a whole–treat me in relation to my gender and sexual identity. He told me something that I didn’t know–when we first started dating, old friends of his who saw us walking around together, going on dates, kissing, etc. were confused because they thought I was a guy and they’d never pinned him for being gay. He didn’t correct them, just let them think what they wanted, and figure it out (and feel like idiots) when they were introduced to me later and heard my voice (although I have a somewhat deep voice for a girl, my voice is unmistakably female). He told me he didn’t even think much of it, because he didn’t care. In our religion there is a belief in souls that are reincarnated multiple times–and he believed my soul was a man and his was a woman. He also said, “If you wanted to go through gender reassignment, I wouldn’t care–I’d still love you, you’d be the man I love. If you wanted to start being more feminine for some reason, I wouldn’t care–I’d still love you, you’d be the woman I love. I don’t care what you are on the surface, or what your body says–your physical body is just a shell, what you are on the inside…that can’t be touched by anything physical. And that’s what I was drawn to. I love you, and nothing physical could change that.” When he said that, I broke down crying–I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. People had told me before “It’s your choice, do what you want.” People had pushed me to transition fully, or to be more girlish. Nobody had ever said to me what he did–“I don’t care what you are on the surface, or what your body says…I love you, and nothing physical could change that.” That was the first time in my life I had ever felt truly and completely 100% happy with myself. I wish every transgendered man or woman in the world had someone like him, who loves the inside and is happy with what is brought to the outside and supportive no matter what. And who doesn’t care what anyone else says about it.

The article addressed something that I felt very personally and that I know as a very real issue. Parts of the article made me sad, others made me feel a glimmer of hope. But throughout I can honestly say I was extremely moved.

I agree with this, Panther.
I recently flew to KL to meet and go out with a Tg girl. She came to the hotel that was staying at and she was stunning right from the first glance. She was tall, pretty and with shorts on she had legs that went on forever. We we out during my stay there and everytime we went out she dressed in a way that shouted ” look at me, I’m TG” Consequently, she would get lewed comments from men and she was like a centre of attention. I did not mind at all but she said that she did not out much because of the attention that she got and I thought ….duh !!!!
She was not a sex worker, had a job, and was great company to be with.
On that trip I met my tg girlfriend and she is lovely. She dresses conservatively, wears and can get away with little make up, and not once did anyone make remarks to her. She takes my arm and walks at my side and I am so very proud being with her. We had fantastic fun doing the touristy things and got on so very well, BUT she does not have a job or hobbies so at times we are stuck for chat topics.
Ilove that girl. She is getting more interested in things other than sex as I spend time with her . Part of her not having other interests is her environment. Also, there is a huge stigma around hiring TG girls, perhaps the status in life thing, but she has no luck getting support in her local neighbourhood.
The longer that I spend with her the more that I see her change, gain confidence and I am sure that we will be good together for years to come.

Lee,
From how it has been described to me by many close transgender friends of mine, many trans people not only experience dysphoria due to societal norms based on gender, they experience a dysphoria about their bodies as well. Their mental “body map” (there is a term for it but it escapes me now) that tells them what parts of their body should be where doesn’t match the actual physicality of their body. So a transwoman isn’t just a male-bodied person who feels behaviorally/mentally they are a woman, they are a person who’s “body map” tells them when they look at their chest, they should have breasts or that when they look at their genitals there should be a vagina and not a penis. Also, there are many different levels of how a person who identifies as transgender wishes to change their body. Some only choose to take hormones and don’t wish to change their bodies surgically, others opt for surgery without hormones, and still others present themselves as their preferred gender through wardrobe/behavior. It is all acceptable and completely up to the individual. I went into a lot more detail there, but as far as your question goes, that at least how I understand it is why many desire a surgery option.

I forgot to mention also, we are set to be married, her in New Zealand, so you should reconsider your entire comment.

Woah! I am a transsexual woman, and nothing you have said there matches my description. I am in a committed loving relationship, my male partner is open to everyone about everything. I do not just hang out with Trans and gay men, and I have cis gendered women friends(we get along really well). I get out and do things like everyone else, like go to just ordinary bars, shop, do a bit of gardening, go for bush walks, swim, go movies, play mini putt many other things. I do not think i am a super model or think i am famous, and never try to be either. I am not easy, I am actually the opposite. It seems here you are really just making excuses for hiding in a closet.

Maybe if you stopped using sex sites etc to meet one of us, or actually offer to take one on a REAL date, then you may actually find we are opposite to what you have taught yourself to believe. A man like you is one I have always stayed away from, as I am not a sexual object, I am a woman with a heart.

So I am speaking as a cis-gendered, heterosexual female. I was always brought up to judge people on their character, not based on anything like gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. etc. I truly am not just trying to sound pc here. Some of my best friends are gay, and I had this fascinating conversation about European history with a trans-woman I met once. My college has a comparatively large trans community – one of whom was the best chemistry TA EVER! and a trans-man who I will not deny, I found quite attractive. I did not pursue him because, well, I do not pursue ANYBODY. Because I’m a chump like that. Seriously. I’m WAY too shy for my own good. It’s pretty horrible.

All of that aside. I am very curious about the whole gender issue… I get really confused. I mean, I have never questioned my own gender, but I honestly believe that if I were born with man parts, I would be perfectly content living as a guy. I just am not sufficiently motivated to do so. Anyway, what I’m trying to get at is this: what does it mean to “feel like a woman” or “be a woman” born as a biological male? If it doesn’t matter who does what jobs or takes on which societal roles and responsibilities, why does gender matter at all? Thus, why would a person feel the need to change their gender? I hate cooking, I hate cleaning, and I love math and physics. I don’t want kids. The only particularly “girl” thing about me is that I enjoy showing off my boobs and/or doing my hair/makeup from time to time. But not very frequently. I mean, ok, I don’t like using the word woman at all. Maybe it’s the biologist in me, but I prefer the term “female.” From my perspective, the box I check on government forms, or on facebook, is a biological fact – not a statement about who I am as a person.

I concede that, coming from the out-group in this case, I can try to understand but I will probably never fully comprehend. But I wonder if we lived in a world where mothers encouraged their daughters to play football if they want to… to make model airplanes… to play with those little green army men… Or in converse, if more dads encouraged their son to dance ballet, write poetry, do whatever it is society tells girls to do… I wonder if we lived in that world, if maybe there would be fewer people who felt the need to surgically alter their physically manifested sex? (I want to be a surgeon when I finish med school, so it’s not like I’m against surgery on principle).

I apologize if this has offended anyone – I cannot stress enough that this was not meant as an attack on any group or individual. I am a scientist. I get intellectually curious about things that I do not fully understand.

Thank you, and have a lovely day.

In organic chemistry, if the two biggest “groups” of the molecule are on the same side of the molecule it is a “cis-oriented molecule.” If the two biggest groups are on opposite sides of the molecule, it is a “trans-oriented molecule.” So, cis-gender is saying that a person’s gender identity is on the “same side” of the gender binary as their biological sex, and trans-gender is saying that a person’s gender identity is on the opposite side of the gender binary as their biological sex.

I would first like to say… we can agree to disagree, Panther. I am transgender woman with two college degrees. I work a full-time job and I am still debating on if I am going to graduate school or not. I do understand what you are saying, however it works both ways. Regardless, if the persons are trans or not men have a tendency pick the women that display themselves in negative manner. So… let’s be real for just one second. Men are notorious for cheating on their wives and being very deceiving to woman to get themselves off! It is hard for you men to remain or stay monogamist. You have from the beginning of time always wanted the images that look the best to you. Now wonder why you keep meeting trash! You want to date a real transgender woman then stopping looking at the outer and focus on the inner. Men always pass me by, never realizing I am trans and I am single. I do care myself as woman and still not one man has approached me about something serious! So now you just met another one classy, educated, and real transwoman. We are all not the same, now say something “Panther”. Oh yes, I am extremely beautiful just to let you know!

“cis” is short for “cisgender”. :)

Jenifer, I think its all in the interpretation because I read it as saying: attracted to a trans woman, or someone of the opposite sex = a man. Meaning a man being shamed for cheating with a woman OR a man, it is still cheating regardless of his sexual desires.

The term I know of is “trans amorous” or “Trans Am” for short. Sounds catchy to me.

There must be a t-shirt with that on it, no?

This is not always true Joan. We are out here.

I want to just support what Noah has said. I had a long term relationship with a woman, I did not call her a ‘trans’ woman because nobody was using that term, but we had a relationship based on any man/woman relationship, and I found her attractive and have found other women attractive as well who are in this ‘new’ category of sexuality. I had one recent date with a trans woman but she was not out, so we kept it quiet. I have no problem with it; if I meet a woman and she calls into this category, I will own her and own up to it. If men will speak up more, it will make it so much easier for these women to stand up and be counted themselves; they need to know they are wanted, and there are men out there who do want them, not because they are ‘trans’ but because they are some of the most emotional sensitive and real women out there, given what they have gone through and go through every day.

Panther – Thank you for your frank remarks. After reading them, I’m moved to ask you the following: What if a transgender woman (a) doesn’t dress “provocatively”, (b) gets along with others including other women, (c) does not bring more “drama” than the average person, (d) does not talk using a lot of “street” colloquialisms, yet IS obviously transgender? How would you feel publicly dating such a person?

As Janet Mock wrote, “If a man dares to be seen with a trans woman, he will likely lose social capital so he must adamantly deny, vehemently demean, trash and/or exterminate the woman in question. He must do this to maintain his standing in our patriarchal society. For a man to be associated with a trans women, in effect, is to say that he is no longer a ‘real’ man (as if such a thing exists) because he sleeps with ‘fake’ women (as if such a thing exists).”

I will digress a little here to note that blaming “patriarchal society” for this circumstance does not quite add up. Let’s say for the sake of argument that society is matriarchal and that women have more power than men. In such a society, those cisgendered women who like it that way and want to preserve their gender privilege may well tend to view transwomen with hostility, seeing them as “social climbers” seeking to enter a higher status gender than the one into which they were physically born.

Although I haven’t seen many hard and fast numbers, the data I’ve seen as well as my own personal observations suggest that there are more transwomen than transmen out there. Does the apparent fact that more people are trying to become female than are trying to become male tell us anything about the nature of society? If so, what does it tell us?

That issue aside however, I believe there is much truth in Janet’s overall observation. The threat to a cisgender man (or woman, for that matter) of losing “social capital” over being publicly associated with a transwoman in a romantic context is I think a real one that exists as a potent consideration apart from any of the behavioral manners or sartorial choices of individual t-girls. Your comment seems to come close to tackling this key and awkward issue, but never really quite does so.

I’m not saying your other concerns are invalid, nor is it necessarily invalid to consider one’s social standing when deciding whom to date — although persons with lots of “social capital” should perhaps be aware of the degree to which the status they enjoy is based upon societal bigotry towards various other persons, in relation to whom their own standing is thereby increased, and with this in mind, may wish to consider relinquishing a little of their social capital so that others who are less respected by society may have a little more of it. After all, there aren’t (nor should there be) any taxes on social capital, or on looks, or on desirability, which creates I think something of a moral obligation for those who are blessed in one or more of these regards to wield their social power conscientiously and with kindness.

Anyway, to come to my main point: If we acknowledge that the “social capital” issue is real in regard to transwomen, and acknowledge that it is a social injustice (just as all discrimination on the basis of looks which are beyond an individual’s ready control is an injustice, regardless of how much or how little can be done about this injustice in the bigger picture), then I think we will if we are honest acknowledge that it is unfair and a little disingenuous to act as if it is only their individual choices or personalities which make us think twice about being seen with them in public.

Translation: You are not real women and you trannies should be lucky to have anyone love you!

Jamie, nice to see your name pop into view again.
I think I have it, that non-pejorative for guys that find women attractive. I think BOYFRIEND could work though I recognize the youthful implications of the word. It has a history of acceptance and is used commonly to identify any man, or male that is attracted to another person. If a relationship develops over a long time perhaps, a live in together or very closely associated in a similar way you could use partner, or husband if it the parties, the couple are comfortable with that identifier.

In other words we do not need a new term for someone that loves women. We can stop identifying them as different. THough I would say I have a desire to raise them up, these guys that have found us and want to be with us. I am always wary, always skeptical. The shadows of fear, shame, stigma still swirl around me even when I think I may have escaped and found that someone wants to be with me. AHHH but I am a creature of time and experience.

If I just start going out a bit with a guy again I would just refer to him as my friend until it gets to a point, if it does that we have a few sleepovers and such then he might make it to boyfriend status. If we go a ways down the timeline and its all good, mostly good, he might make partner status. Husband? Omigawd, I just don’t know. I might be just too old a dawg to indulge in that but then again I try not to lock and bolt the door before I find it.

Thing the first: it is 100% ok to be attracted to whomever you are attracted to. If you are exclusively attracted to ciswomen, well, ok – that’s your thing. That’s cool. No one wants to “make” you date anyone you’re not attracted to.

Thing the second: yes, I agree that honesty is a big part of relationships, and if you’re considering a serious relationship with someone, it’s important to tell them things that could impact that relationship. That’s a trust issue right there.

HOWEVER.

Thing the third: there are a LOT of different reasons why a transwoman may not be 100% upfront about her trans status from the get-go. Those reasons could range from “I don’t feel like my genitals have a huge impact on who I am as a person, so I don’t think it’s important to bring it up,” alllll the way down to “I knew someone who was murdered for being trans, so I don’t out myself unless I have already established a great deal of trust with someone.” And everything in between. I am not the person to lay down any sort of hard and fast rule, but in general I would think that there’s no need to go into one’s trans status until a solid foundation of trust and mutual affection has been laid down in a relationship, enough to where the trans person can feel safe that even if you no longer feel sexual attraction, you won’t get violently angry or try to use that knowledge against them. I mean, in a perfect world that wouldn’t be a concern and everyone could be upfront about everything and people could just date and/or sleep with and/or marry whomever they wanted and everyone would be cool with it… but we’re not in this perfect world.

I understand that it must be very frustrating and upsetting to start dating someone, develop feelings for them, and then suddenly discover something about them that causes you to lose physical attraction for them. I can see how it might feel like a betrayal of trust, and how it could be disconcerting to have emotional attachments to someone that you can no longer physically desire. I imagine it might hurt a lot. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make that not happen. But as long as society remains as fucked up as it is, it’s going to happen – because the alternative is transwomen making themselves vulnerable to discrimination and violence, and that’s not ok.

I can only hope that if you ever face this unhappy situation in real life, you’ll think about the reasons why she may have hid this aspect of herself from you, and be compassionate.

It seems like you’re confusing cause and effect here. A sad majority of the time, transwomen – and transmen for that matter – get a lot of negative pushback from “mainstream” society, face fairly extreme difficulties in finding employment, deal with all kinds of stigmas and prejudice, etc. So I would not be surprised in the least if many of them were more at home with “fringe” culture (as it’s more likely to accept them and not shame them), nor by the fact that many transwomen go into sex work or other socially unacceptable professions, because when you’re desperate, you’ll make ends meet however you can.

Acting like that’s the reason why there’s a stigma attached to transwomen, rather than understanding that that’s a CONSEQUENCE of such a stigma, is ignorant and unfair.

But I think where you really lost me – and where any woman, trans or cis, should be seeing red flags – is the line “if I can always easily access what I want there is no need to bother myself with a relationship”.

So ok, if you can get the sex you crave, why SHOULD you bother with a relationship?

Well, because to any man worthy of mine or any other woman’s respect, a relationship means so much more than JUST sex. Trust, companionship, loyalty, mutual help, an activity partner, someone to laugh with, someone to bring you chicken soup when you’re sick and make fun of really bad movies with you. Someone who forwards you that meme they found at reddit that pokes gentle fun at your favorite hobby, and they knew you’d get the joke and laugh. Someone who picks up your favorite soda at the store because she noticed you’re almost out. Someone who’ll listen patiently while you explain that super cool thing you did in your favorite video game this afternoon. Someone who can argue passionately with you about a topic you both care about, and yet at the end you both feel enlightened rather than angry. Someone who’ll tell you, “I’m having a bad day, and the only thing that can make it better is your arms wrapped around me.”

Love.

And relationships don’t revolve around gender issues. A transwoman and a ciswoman are equally capable of having that closeness, that affection and trust. If you can’t see that – if you see transwomen as good for sex but nothing else, if you ONLY notice the transwomen who fit into your preconceived stereotypes, if you look at those stereotypes and never take a moment to wonder why and how a woman might find herself in those situations or with those mindsets… well, it says a lot more about you than it says about transwomen.

And it doesn’t say anything good.

I found myself attracted to a man, he is bright, funny, intelligent and just a loving and strong soul. He gives me a feeling of security when I am with him. And the first time we were attracted to each other, he kissed me, fully, not a peck, but a warm full kiss. I had opened up to him that I was different before we even started talking, as I do to anyone who appears interested in me in a romantic or sexual manner.

Unusual ? Well, he is a male, born that way, identifies that way, and yet, he felt no shame in placing a french kiss on me in public, directly in view of the table I was sitting at and the rest of the guests.

And to my knowledge, neither one of us has any feelings of shame over that one, although I have been known to blush while talking about it. It was my first french kiss with a man, and it was very public. And incredibly special.

Some may call me a trans woman (I do have Gender Dysphoria), but it seems the only thing I see in the mirror any longer is a woman, actually she resembles my mother quite a bit. I can associate in a public setting the way I feel, as a beautiful, mature woman out with an attractive mature man. No tricks, no deception, just human emotions.

You reaffirmed my decision to remain open, truthful, and proud.

Ok, I do not like much of what you have to say however, I do know in some cases you are correct. The point that I must address, is on JOBS! Trans women face discrimination that you can not even imagine. I am a well educated, skilled person who served 20 years in the US Navy, retiring in 1995. I landed a job as an IT Manager in the corporate world and worked for 9 years, leaving that job in 2004 as the CIO (Chief Information Office) , holding a seat on the board of Directors. Making sure that I would give plenty of time for the company to replace me, I gave 6 months notice, unheard of in today’s job market. I took a year off for my transition, moved to a new state, then started working contract jobs to build up job history so that maybe I could have enough local history so I would not get outed when I started looking for a full time job…. I wanted to show that I was still as reliable and skilled as I was before transition, when the questions about gender came up in the background checks that I knew would be part of getting a job in IT. I used a “Head Hunter” to help me get in to the Corporate world here in the Midwest. I live in the Northwest Arkansas area where the worlds largest retailer has it’s home office, along with the worlds largest Protein Provider company and several of the largest Trucking companies home bases. Not to mention that every large information Technology company in the US has “Field Service Offices” and “Call Centers” dedicated to these large companies. I had made sure that I had taken contract jobs with these IT companies servicing the large retail company and the large protein company , making sure that I had taken leadership jobs, installing equipment and upgrading systems. Jobs that would require that background checks would be done because of the high level of network security and administration privileges required to be issued to me to allow me to work inside data centers and requiring me to have the “Keys to the Kingdom” so to speak.. I had made myself well known enough and my skills were respected enough that I was requested by the customer to run jobs for companies like Dell and HP, Over the next 3 years, I interviewed for many jobs and kept working as a contractor for the IT companies… I would make it to the point where it was necessary that I “Inform” them of my past… after that point the Job Requirement would go away or it would be filled from within… Even with companies that had “Gender Identity ” protection in the corporate “Non Discrimination” statements, this type of thing happened. No matter what the company says, people still make the choices and people still have their own feelings and prejudices. I finally after 4 years, gave up and started my own company servicing consumer computers and providing services to small business. With the skill set I had and the years of job history , I could not get more than a contract job, with a temp service. So your comments on JOBS and trans women cause me to believe that you are just as prejudiced as any of the others…. Where I grew up, we would have called you a “Dixiecrat” , If you do not now what the means, A Dixiecrat is someone who will have clandestine sex with a black woman or man but they would never , sit by one on the bus or eat with one in a restaurant and for sure you would not be caught paying beside one in church. So while some of my sisters may act like sex workers or seek men to make them feel like the women they are, it is as much the fault of men like you that they are held down and told they are not worth taking a risk for…. After why would a man like you take a risk because, you can get what you want in a back ally without anyone finding out…. Oh wait that is what Janet’s post was about.

trans woman | cis woman. Cis is the word you want :)

Dear god. Could someone please push back against the ignorant transphobic BS that is piling up here?

Akua, I don’t know whether you’re the only person who has proposed this term, but it was running through my head as I read this article. And I’m a straight cis guy, so that would seem to be evidence that it’s spreading as a term :)

I think the concept is important and it didn’t feel like it really came up in the article.

I’d love an overview of transphobic, trans-and-cis-equal, trans-attracted, and trans fetishistic.

WTF? Maybe we can just edit this comment into non-existence rather than me parsing out the 301 transphobic illogical claims the author is trying to make?

I self-identify as pansexual, so I am open to dating any consenting adults where we have enough common ground and there is some chemistry. I don’t worry about how they self-identify their personal sexual orientation, or gender identity as long as they understand they are dating a woman and are clear on that. (i.e. a male (cis or trans) who self-identifies as bisexual of course will still be bisexual, as I will still be pansexual, but we would be in a straight relationship).

I tend to mostly date straight identified men, but have also dated lesbian identified women. Of those lesbian women, two were cis and two were trans.

We’ve seen so many breakthroughs in our understanding of science, medicine, genetics, and psychiatry in recent years/months, which drastically alter the old “XX” and “XY” theories espoused in those 7th grade Health classes back in 1966. Suffice to say we understand that things occurring in the brain aren’t just “fluff”. We don’t choose to be a certain sexual orientation or gender identity mid-afternoon on a boring Tuesday because it sounds like more fun than working. Our brains are neuro-biological, physical, natal, organic, natural-born, real, true. we understand that there are more than just “XX” and “XY”, that those can indeed change, that they are far less important to our in utero development than other processes talking place during our gestation. More people will meet my brain during my lifetime than will meet my genitalia, no matter what they are.

How one self identifies and how open or stealth one is, is a vastly personal decision. I myself am quite open to many. I am just the “girl next door” to many others. While I choose to be clear and open on the mainstream dating sites where I have my profiles, I do so not out of any feelings of obligation to “come clean” to prospective dates who may have an issue with my being of transsexual history. I firmly believe if someone has an issue with dating a trans* person, then it is THEIR responsibility to ask every single prospective date if they are trans*. I am clear up front simply because I do not wish to waste my time dealing with somebody who may freak out on me later on. I don’t need to be bothered with their baggage and psychiatric issues and fears over their own sexuality. I prefer to educate rather than obfuscate, but I am not giving everyone I meet a free course in Trans* 101. Also I have no desire whatsoever to date someone who doesn’t believe I exist or finds the thought of dating me undesirable.

With the bio-medical breakthroughs we are seeing on the horizon, it will not be long before trans* kids can live their lives right along with their cis peers and as adults conceive children, carry them in utero, birth them, (and of course nurse them as they can now). Remember, Lili Elbe, the first (that I know of) trans woman to undergo SRS/GCS did have a uterus and ovaries implanted, but being the late 1920’s-early 1930’s, there were no drugs to prevent organ rejection.

Let us hope we can move forward, educating as we go and dispelling the hatred, misinformation, and bigotry we encounter simply for not fitting someone else’s cookie-cutter mold.

Just my 2¢, Other’s mileage may vary.

Women come in all shapes sizes and experiences. Women from the trans community are indeed women. And miggzzybaby if you want to wear a mask and be treated like a monkey I’m willing to put you in a cage and let you hang out with the other monkeys. Far be it for me to not do so.

{Just love when people use silly arguments like that one to try to say they are right in something}

Thank you sooooooooo much for being the advocate you are (and to other trans-advocates who read comments- thank you to you all as well). I can tell you that reading this, and seeing you on the MHP Show a few months ago, and seeing that there is an ever so slight push forward in the advancement of the trans-community- I just want to thank and applaud you for so effectively putting to words something that much of society needs to become more aware of. Deciding to live out loud- by just being yourself instead of who society says you are supposed to be. Trans-people are NOT offensive, or shameful, and literally every word you wrote is what I- myself- will refer to as gospel, because it is truth handed down from above (for the believe), and just “truth” for the non-believers. There is no place in society for shaming someone for living their life- a trans-person- and it is another thing (of around equal offense) of shaming someone who is interested the trans-individual. Again, as you indicated, the psychological effect that is and will be just completely frightful… Hey, how about “No ‘T’ Left Behind”??? We can’t let the trans-community be left behind.

EVERYTHING you said truly lifted my spirits, because as a trans-loving person, the things you wrote are things I think about driving to work, in the grocery story- what we “young-folk” call, ‘on the regular’. These are some of the many important topics that need to be brought to the table. So, THANK YOU, for doing what you do and will continue to do for our community!

Sincerely,
Benji (PSL, FL)

I am an admirer. Mr.Cee shouldn’t have warranted all this negative hype because he was in the car with a cross dresser. Necessary topics are stumbling to the forefront but where do we go from here?

No one ever once said Transgender women don’t deserve anything. Its just being with them in secret is convenient. They eagerly make themselves overly available and extremely easy to get with, if I can always easily access what I want there is no need to bother myself with a relationship, especially not a complicated questionable one. You (Janet) portray yourself in a presentable way. Many trans women dress in such a provocative way. I don’t want to be seen with that. All men appreciate an attractive woman but its very difficult to be with some one trying to model their style after a half naked hip hop video vixen or TV personality like the Kardashians.

The showiness makes people scrutinize. That inspection usually makes them notice everything about who I may be with including they were born male. Its not worth it! The pasts as an escort (as most T girls have) may be the cause of not understanding conservative or appropriate dressing, or speech. Whores are fun! But few men want to take on being with one. As a corporate professional with high ranking position in a lucrative but conservative business, and a pretty nice lifestyle I cant have some one using LGBT & trans street trick style colloquialisms and slang at my office parties and dinner with other couples. How do Transgender women get along with cis women? They usually don’t. They get paranoid that every one is after them. They want to make a scene, and fight. Just another layer of issues and drama, makes another reason I handle me liking Tgirls by not dealing with them publicly. The problem usually isnt the public only. Its the individual.

If I want to be with a woman, and take her out, she has to get along with others. My date’s appearance and how she carries herself is a reflection of me. If some one notices, so what?! Or has a question – so what? This happens to all types of race groups and foreigners. I would never let anything happen to some one I care for. Especially not in front of me. There is no need to get into a brawl. When the thought of possibly dating a lovely Trans girl I met came up I had to take a hard look not so much how I will judged for being with her.But what type of person is she?

When the question or topic of proper title or gender comes up, all the Trans women I know are ready to go in Mike Tyson style – bite some one in the ear and punch them in the face. I cant be with somebody like that in public, This wild stuff outside of the bedroom is too much to deal with. You have to consider the lifestyle and career of some one before you expect to be taken into acceptance. There is so much vocabulary & terms that you girls prefer on an individual basis. I saw Isis King politely correct Howard Stern on his show. If Trans women are calling out society and wanting to be seen then come out into society like any one else. That would make dating one of you easier.

During enjoying the company of trans women I also saw that they need to expand themselves because only they are in charge of their visibility. The ones I’ve encountered spent their days working with other trans sex workers or gay men, (their small community of associates). This leaves them ill prepared for blending, and having friendships other than what they’re used to. Using these words that familiar only gay circles. Thats not acceptable outside that circle. Crossover into the real world more often. The only way admirers can access a trans women is online.

Trans women are so critical of society not accepting them but when is the last time you saw a trans girl out riding a citi-bike, playing tennis, hiking,or PARTICIPATING in normalcy? Ive flirted with some really sexy Trans women in chat rooms, or facebook. THEY NEVER HAVE A JOB or anything to discuss or offer besides sex. They all claim to be models. While that is something of great use for a backpage advertisement. If you put their photo in Google search, that is all that comes up. Hey girls! You’re not Carmen Carrera, you cant go around trying to convince people you’re a transgender model and TV personality but no one ever saw or heard of you. If the only time anyone sees trans women is on youtube, or Jerry Springer people may be curious if they ever face one. Initially America wasn’t accepting of African Americans but they did sit ins. If black, gays, and handi apped can get employment and function in society why cant Trans women? Ive had girls tell me they are very comfortable and accustomed to the easy and fast money of escorting. They don’t want jobs! They want money! Do you think a Trans girl wants to flip burgers or work in foot locker? Or work in corporate? You cant get a career without education. It will be difficult to balance paying for surgical procedures while attending classes but its doable. The schools are not discriminating. Most trans women don’t want to go to school though, they want to be the next pop icon star or celebrity figure.

Trans women are calling upon society for more openness but they’ve gotta meet us half way.

This is bullshit. Trans women are NOT women.real or otherwise. If I put on a monkey mask and expect society to treat me as a monkey, I’m asking too much. If ur gay ur gay. That’s fine. If ur a man who like to dress as a woman and pretend to be a woman, also fine. Who cares what people do if they are not hurting anybody? But when I’m expected to participate in someones personal fantasy (acknowledging a man as a woman or vice versa) that’s pushing ur vanity too far. The whole concept of FREEDOM is to do what u want to but u can’t force unreality on people and expect everything to go the way u want it. Peace.

Actually saying that trans people are LESS than other men and women is quite offensive. It is obvious that being a trans, is in your eyes, is less than ideal. Trans people are a different kind of men and women and yet their identities are just a valid as anyone else. We need to really step away from genital based identity ideas and look at what transpires in the heart and the mind of a person. Gender has less to do with whats between your legs and more about self perception and how one likes to be perceived. A lot of non trans people say that if transgender people just offer a full disclosure in the beginning all will be well. Nothing could further from the truth. Even if you do find someone who is totally open and up front about liking trans people they still are subject to the scrutiny of society. There are many trans women who have been victimize because the partner who knew became violent afterward not being able to deal. Even if it doesn’t go that far if it doesn’t work out a trans person can be subject to cruel ridicule from others who know about their identity . Being exposed to people that do not have a healthy interest in your well being is quite dangerous and life altering. These pressure can turn even well meaning people and situations into something ugly and horrible. We don’t need to be told by the societal safe “that”s the way that it is” I don’t know one trans person who is not aware of that harsh reality. I do believe in certain circumstance disclosure is very important but the time and place for that varies from situation and person.

Everyone talks about their own personal privacy yet feels they are entitled to know every detail about someone else’s life, especially celebrities. Celebrities are put up on a pedestal where we think they can do no wrong yet they are filled with the same issues and concerns everyone else has – they are human afterall. The problem here is not necessarily that DJ Mister Cee is somehow closeted but that someone else felt the need/desire/want to publicly shame him and that action has nothing to do with any kind of trans related guilt, that was done for 15 seconds of fame. I feel there’s more to the story that we don’t know.

Janie B.—just stop, please. Obviously you’re not even informed enough about what transgender identity is to even hold a conversation about it. Furthermore, your own standard for “natural-born” womanhood is so deeply and utterly misogynist that no woman could ever reach it. But that’s the thing about bigotry—it’s a double-edged sword, to paraphrase the great blogger Son of Baldwin. The blade you use on trans women is gonna cut cis women too.

You are ignorant Janie B.

What about people born with Inter sex conditions? Should they say they are less of a woman when they have XY-male chromosomes? They are practically in the same boat as post op trans women.
There are so many people born with DNA / genetic differences It’s impossible to refine gender in “genetics” or “reproducing” You know there are males born with female genetics who can reproduce AS A MALE? Even though their genetics say they are female. Pretty much all you are saying is non-sense and It is putting a group of people down, when In fact you as a woman are in the same group with trans women in society and in law.

Most trans women have a birth certificate of a FEMALE. You can’t say they weren’t born one. They have EXACTLY the same rights as you as a CIS-WOMAN. They are TREATED like a CIS-WOMAN in society, whether you like it or not. You and the trans woman are on the same line, sorry but you have to deal with that. I agree with the fact that you don’t have to say you are a “trans woman” cause the society views you as a woman.

I was born with an inter sex medical condition, and I am in fact a “genetic woman, born woman, whatever” but I have had to step into the shoes of MANY different types of people through my life.

I stand tall and proud for trans women, inter sex women, WOMEN of all kind. We are all equal. And we should live in peace.

I am, as all of us are, the sum total of my life experiences combined with how I have reacted and grown as a result. I am proud to have survived, and appreciate the open discourse I have had with my cisgender friends.

Sigh. Take it up with biology. You are not less or more than any other human being socially, mentally or “spiritually”. But you are not a complete female physically.

Don’t like it? Again, take it up with biology. You remind me of those idiots who claim homosexuality is a “choice”..

Miles

That’s not entirely true, see here http://vimeo.com/39522510 for example.

Let me preface by saying that this post is addressed to several comments, not just yours Erika…

I apologize if I didn;’t make it clear that I meant less than a natural born woman, not less of a person… I in no way, shape or form think that a transgender person is less of a person/human being than anyone else, and they should be treated with respect and dignity like anyone else.

It seems these days that people want to redefine established meanings to fit their agendas rather than create and abide by new words like ‘transgender’. You can paint an apple orange, and spray orange essence on it, but it’s still an apple. And the ability to bear children, is what has separated the men from the women since the beginning of time, so how am I being sexist?

Going under the knife to change your physical appearance does not change what you were born as, nor does it change who you feel you are inside. You cant erase all that, but you can deny it if you choose to.

As far as treating them differently, people who are different always have to go through some things until it’s fully accepted… not saying that it’s right, but unfortunately that’s just how it is. Transgender people aren’t exclusive to not always being treated nicely. We are getting better as a society… people are becoming more accepting of differences, but it’s gonna take some time.

I am against violence towards anyone, and would like to see any miscreant who abuses anyone be put under the jail. I believe in tolerance. Everyone should be able to live the life they choose, how they choose to live i as long as they aren’t hurting anyone, be they straight, gay, trans, bisexual, or nonsexual. But having said that, why is is so important for gay people to be out and proud, but it’s a private matter for a transgender person to reveal themselves? Why not be proud of that too? I don’t get the hypocrisy.

The only way the discrimination will subside is for people to see them as a normal part of this society, see that they are just like the rest of us with feelings, and aspirations, and are good and bad and indifferent, and just plain human, not a sideshow. That’s the only way that some will get used to the fact that they exist and they’re not going anywhere. No need for celebration nor denigration… just be.

And I dare judge my cousin because she selfishly chose to knowingly deceive a man who clearly wanted children of his own, because he talked about it all the time! And all the while she knew couldn’t have any… she was dead wrong! I didn’t say she had to announce it to the world, just her fiance’. I guess it would be his private issue if he decided to step outside of their marriage and have a few kids on the side. She should have told him upfront, but again, that’s a moral and a character issue. And if you think that a person should be loved and considered marriage material regardless of if they can bear children, gives them the right to be deceitful, that says a lot about you.

If you can’t have kids, and your man no longer wants you, wouldn’t it be best to know that before getting married? In a perfect world, it wouldn’t be a factor and they could adopt, etc, but obviously it’s not a perfect world or this discussion wouldn’t be taking place. People in hell want ice water, but such is life. What we want or think should be isn’t always so. People who feel they can withhold information that will affect someone else’s life in such a grand way are lacking in integrity. They are self serving, lying by omission, untrustworthy, feckless individuals hiding behind the shield of ‘privacy’. There is an unwritten moral code to be honest with the person you claim to love, with whom you want to spend the rest of your life with, about things that affect the both of you. We all have little secrets or tell little white lies, but come on now.

I knew someone would throw in a jumbled mishmash of comparing this issue to people of color, etc… and the female issue to mastectomies, childlessness, abortion, birth defects etc… but a breastless, childless, abortion having, weak heart having one arm and one leg having ‘female’ is still just that… a natural born female… estrogen vs. testosterone… and before anyone goes there, if a transsexual stops taking their meds, what would happen? If a trans-woman/trans-man doesn’t elect to have surgery, should they be considered a member of the opposite sex even though they don’t have the genitalia?

In my opinion too much time is wasted trying to be accepted as females or males instead of putting more effort into being accepted as just people trying to live their lives openly and freely.

Now I even get the part about people feeling they were born with the wrong body, or the brain of the opposite sex… but we can’t see a brain. When a Black man walks down the street, from a distance he can be President Barrack Obama, but all some people will see is a Black man,or a more offensive pejorative starting with the letter ‘N’. Then proceed to clutch their purses and lock their car doors. There is nothing the average Black man can do in that moment to feel more accepted by the world, or to put people at ease. To many, he is immediately categorized because of his Blackness, nothing else. So it is offensive to some Black people to have our strugglse compared to gay issues or transgender issues. Yes there are similarities, but it’s a whole ‘nother thing to many of us. Just like there are similarities between a natural born female and a trans woman, but it’s still a whole ‘nother thing. When Rock Hudson, Portia Di Rossi,or my next door neighbors walked down the street, they were just identified as White men/women, not gay or bi, or anything else until they told it.

Just for the record, Mr. Cee resigned on Thursday, was invited back to the station on Friday to do an interview about his situation, and was convinced to un-resign by the station manager. Time will tell, but he seems to be accepted by his co-workers and a few have spoken out on his behalf in the hip hop community. His candor will go a long way to getting some understanding and acceptance for liking what you like and loving who you love, regardless of what anyone else thinks…kudos Mr. Cee. No labels necessary. Now if he is cheating on his wife and out there with trans-prostitutes, that’s another whole ‘nother thing… lol Peace.

I am a proud man and have no use for ciswomankind, I can only hope that this community doesn’t mistakenly fall into worshipful reverence over the opinion and attitudes of cis women and, under such pretexts, attempt to destroy us even as we attempt to reach out towards you with open arms of solidarity and fraternity (along with romantic loyalty).

Please do not let cis women alienate us from one another.

Don’t let heteronormativity get you down! There is definitely some lezzie love for all women in a lot of online communities. Autostraddle regularly features lesbian/queer/bi/pan women writers who happen to be trans (http://www.autostraddle.com) Topside Press out of New York is publishing literature about women who are trans & dating other women.(http://topsidepress.com/)

However, before you click the links, maybe you would kindly reconsider using terms like “bio women” in a way that excludes or separates transwomen. All women are biological. Like Ms. Mock said, “Until we begin checking how we delegitimize the identities, bodies and existence of trans women and stigmatize the men[people] who yearn to be with us, we will continue to marginalize our sisters…”

Now, happy hunting for some affirming lady love stories!

Dear Jillian, Thank you for writing that. As a ciswoman, I’ve been wondering why the trans prefix have to be used since that person is now technically a woman but I’ve been afraid to ask. I don’t want to offend anyone.

Transgender females or males are just as much a person (not something less) as genetic. Pre SRS they can produce children and many have with the equipment they started with. Birth control is still necessary.

Transitioning is a tough journey and is not for the faint of heart. I am finding that those that have done it have the drive to accomplish a lot, be it in a career, relationship, or life. We should all acknowledge that and then let us judge them on who they are and the content of their character, not just use preconceived notions.

I am confused by your comment Janie B. Do you believe this a moral issue, your cousin not disclosing that she was unable to have children. What moral code requires women to announce that they are capable of bearing children. And what makes women who are infertile natural born women. What about women who have a congenital heart defect are they real women or are women supposed to be perfect specimens. What about women who were born with a male brain, are they natural born women, or is this in the end a moral judgement call you have made which you now generalize across the board. Are women with birth defects lesser women? And who makes the call? Obviously your cousin made a judgement call.

You see Janet’s piece is clearly written to explain society shames men who love women who in your judgement are lesser women, maybe even lesser human beings. It’s like the schoolyard where the friend of the girl with a cleft palate is shamed into mocking her because she is a lesser girl because of it. Is that what you are trying to say society should be doing?

“someone of the opposite sex”??? us female trans ARE the opposite sex than men!!!

“someone of the opposite sex”?!?!?!?!?!? excuuuuuse me- us female trans ARE the opposite sex than men…